Water-based finishes can be a bit difficult to rub to a high gloss, especially finishes that contain a high percentage of urethane resins. I use wet/dry paper and a wood block to do this. I was considering wet sanding with 600 grit wet-dry sandpaper. Shellac, solvent and water-based lacquers and two part finishes should cure at least a week. Enter now for your chance to win more than $2,000 worth of woodworking equipment from Woodpeckers. You'll know the surface is flat when it appear dull, with no shiny spots. * Any suggestions for rubbing out a water-based poly? We have created these special content collections organized to give you a deep dive into a range of topics that matter. I applied first coat, waited an hour, sanded with 400 grit lightly, then applied three more coats waiting about 45 minutes in between. Go to a heavier grit if surface irregularities are not fully removed. Keep applying more coats with light sanding between coats and it will smooth out. Has anybody out there tried this or any other methods? UNLIMITED Membership is like taking a master class in woodworking for less than $10 a month. *How you rub out a water-based finish depends on several things. This is where the finish begins to come to life, taking on an attractive, flat sheen with no visible defects. It is resistant to water, alcohol, household chemicals, scratching, chipping, and wear. Sand with medium grit sandpaper and recoat. Rubbing the Finish. The smooth, clear look that you see on expensive furniture and high-end musical instruments, such as pianos and guitars, is achieved by rubbing out the finish. Any suggestions? Ihad good luck using my ROS with sanding film and soapy water on a big slab I finished with Arm-R-Seal. Yes you can rub out a water base polyurethane but not to satin. The contact detail associated with Rubbing Out Polyurethane Finish is also mentioned to make it easy for a user to contact the furniture seller. Stop sooner at a lower grit and you can achieve the perfect semi-gloss, satin, or matte finish. This is a water-based spray lacquer that performs like traditional lacquer. Most of the time, you have to “finish the finish”. Our biweekly podcast allows editors, authors, and special guests to answer your woodworking questions and connect with the online woodworking community. Polyurethane is the toughest, most flexible, least obtrusive, and most durable clear-coating available. Put a few more coats on, concentrating on the areas where it's most dry. They dry fast which means you have to apply them fast. Rubbing out a water based poly finish. Though, after application, one needs nothing less than three coats to achieve a perfect finish for water-based liquid, that’s not the case with the latter. From the second you start rubbing the finish, you start to improve the surface tremendously. Behind the front's flowing grain lie simple and smart building strategies. Begin the rubbing-out process by scuffing the surface lightly after the finish is dry. Become an UNLIMITED member and get it all: searchable online archive of every issue, how-to videos, Complete Illustrated Guide to Woodworking digital series, print magazine, e-newsletter, and more. You're doing it perfectly, nice thin coats is the way to go with a spray can. Before the 5th and final coat I sanded again with the 400 grit paper. If this is the case and you cut through the top coat, you will be left with witness lines. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. In general terms, the longer you let a water-based finish cure, the easier it will be to rub out (within reason, of course). On the downside, water-based poly tends to raise the grain of the wood, is susceptible to watermarks, and can be … The final step is to buff out the 2000-grit scratches with polishing compound. Rubbing Out. Soak your brush in water(for water-based polyurethane) or mineral oils (for oil-based polyurethane). I brushed on 4 coats of water based polyurethane (hi-gloss) over a waterbased stain. ML Campbell also sells water-based products that the pros use, but to my knowledge they only sell in large quantities. I did it for the same reason you want to, to eliminate some finishing defects and give a uniform flat, smooth surface. Do not use polyurethane or water-based acrylics because they will not adhere to shellac. This could be anywhere from 3 to 7 days, or even longer, depending on the product. I found rubbing with the grain was fine, no need to make circles or figure eights. When the finish hardens, you have to sand them out and apply a new finish. © 2021 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved. Good luck,Andy Charron. UNLIMITED membership - Get access to it all. Oil-based varnishes and polyurethane should cure at least two weeks. Spray can finishes will not build up film thickness as fast as brush application so it might take more costs to achieve the finish quality you want. Quick Tip! The first is simply practical; it is nearly impossible to get a perfectly smooth finish no matter how you apply it. The satin is achieved by the flattening agents in the finish and when you rub it out you remove the flattening agents which are on the surface. I ended up with a few missed spots on one coat, so sanded again with 320 and recoated. If your paper gums up with little globs of material, toss it and get another sheet. Water-based polyurethane versions dry much more quickly, are a bit more self-leveling, and have less odor when applying than oil-based versions. Make Fine Woodworking a part of your holiday. Pine is a very soft, porous wood, so it soaks up a lot of finish. You can rub out all types of film forming finishes, including shellac, lacquer, oil based varnish and polyurethane, waterbased coatings and catalyzed or conversion coatings. Hope this is of some help. Fortunately rubbing to a satin finish is easier:1--Sand the surface flat so there are no ridges, brush marks, depressions, dust specks, etc. How was it applied? Water-based finishes can be a bit difficult to rub to a high gloss, especially finishes that contain a high percentage of urethane resins. Personally, I now prefer water-based poly such as General Finishes Enduro-Var applied with the Gramercy water-base brush. Finish with 1500-grit paper. a damp cloth. How Long Do You Let Polyurethane Cure Before Wet Sanding?. The second (and subsequent) coat(s) remelt the coats preceeding it, allowing the finish to flow together. Finishes that are soft, or tough and flexible can be rubbed out, but they don't always take a uniform sheen and … Clark Kellogg shows you how to make your own metal hardware using many of the tools you already own, plus a handful of others. Reply. The patchiness is from the finish still being soaked up by the wood. I would like to help but need to no more.Andy Charron. Use a backer block, and start standing, apply a sprinkle or two of water to keep the sanding action lubed. 10. In general terms, the longer you let a water-based finish cure, the easier it will be to rub out (within reason, of course). The only way to get rid of them is to apply another coat and start over. Click for full details. The sandpaper is soaked in water for 5 minutes or so prior to sanding. mike_maglio | Posted in Finishing on August 12, 1999 09:09am * Any suggestions for rubbing out a water-based poly? Some water-based products bond, or melt-in, between coats while others simply lay one coat on top of the next. Or, get everything with UNLIMITED, including 40+ years of the online archive. Soaking the brush also softens the bristles to make your application even better. Brush out bubbles in a fresh polyurethane finish. A flawless surface is elusive. The problems with water-based polyurethane are that it doesn't level out as smoothly as an oil-based finish, and it doesn't protect as well against the elements. Rubbing out a poly finish can be done, but as you suspect, there's a hazard built in because of the difference in the finish. A place where people can come to learn and share their experiences of doing, building and fixing things on their own. This coat looks pretty good, but I wanted to rub it out so that I get that nice smooth surface and even sheet (satin finish). If it's well cured you should have no trouble rubbing out a polyurethane finish. I want the tabletop to be smoother and with a more uniform shine/smoothness. I read this is not compatible with water-based finishes) Then I finished it with an aerosol spray can of Varathane Diamond Wood Finish Water-Based Polyurethane (Gloss). Let the brush soak until air bubbles stop coming out from the ferrule, then remove the brush and gently wring out the solvent. It dries fast so you can apply three coats in a day. Has anybody out there tried this or any other methods? How many coats did you apply? If you're committed to an oil-based finish, hand rubbing with polish or wipe-on varnish is probably the most effective way to … This could be anywhere from 3 to 7 days, or even longer, depending on the product. Replies. Repeat 4 or so times. Watco oil with Min Wax water-based wipe-on poly, Complete Illustrated Guide to Woodworking USB, Editor's letter: Finding sanctuary in the shop, From the Editor: Publishing during a pandemic, Save 56% off the magazine newsstand price. Begin rubbing-out with medium-grade, (00 steel wool equivalent) synthetic abrasive pads (Photo 4). You don't need to wait until the poly is cured, just dried. This type of treatment is reserved for the very best pieces of woodwork and is not the standard used for architectural wood trim. Thank you very much for the advice! Rubbing Out By Hand Using Traditional Materials Keep applying more coats. Take it to a high enough grit and you’ll be polishing the surface to a super high gloss. Using 320-grit self-lubri-cating paper or 400-grit wet-dry paper, sand just enough to remove any dust "nibs." New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Water-base finishes must be applied with synthetic bristles. Spraying the finish is … ... "Rubbing out" is an abrasive process so poly will fight it. Let it cure longer. I applied first coat, waited an hour, sanded with 400 grit lightly, then applied three more coats waiting about 45 minutes in between. **Note: Use oil-based varnish over shellac. The steel wool will give you a soft, satiny shine.Just be careful when you start the sanding process that you don't cut through the top coat. Polyurethane is a common modern wood finish that can be purchased with either an oil or a water base. In this article I’ll show you how it applies here to a polyurethane wood finishes — either oil-based or water based. And don’t drag the brush on the edge of the can. The point is to remove ... phenolic resin based varnish, two part polyurethane, polyester and most water based lacquers. Lacquer is an evaporative finish. It looks dry to me, you need more coats if you want uniform shine. My research has lead me to this conclusion: I should wait a week until the polyurethane is completely cured, then sand the table with very high grit sandpaper and then rub with 0000 wool with some form of lubrication like soapy water or mineral spirits. There are several techniques by Jeff Jewitt of Homestead Finishing Products: DRY BUFF WITH MIRKA ROYAL MICRO PAPER. Prepare the polyurethane by reducing it about 10 percent with mineral spirits, unless you're using water-based polyurethane, which doesn't need thinning. Using Mirka Royal Micro sandpaper, always start with 1500-grit sandpaper. Subscribe today, now up to 64% off newsstand. Polyurethane is a reactive finish; the finish is actually in layers. After finishing the 2000 grit pass, rinse off and let dry. (ie--satin, gloss or a really high "piano finish" gloss?) If the finish is gummy and loads up the paper in the initial leveling, it’s not dry enough. Water based finishes can be a little tricky to apply. Thinning the polyurethane makes it flow on more smoothly and reduces brush marks. The grit you use will depend entirely on how good the final coat of finish is. It is a panel of pine boards glued together. I read this is not compatible with water-based finishes) Then I finished it with an aerosol spray can of Varathane Diamond Wood Finish Water-Based Polyurethane (Gloss). To reveal flaws (bubbles, brush marks, etc.) The key to this process is letting the finish cure. What kind of finish is it? The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. ⚛ The information about Rubbing Out Polyurethane Finish 7 Easy Steps To Rub is completely presented here. *Andy, I'm putting a finish on a desk I recently made. Plus tips, advice, and special offers from Fine Woodworking. There are three strong reasons for doing so. Natural bristles will absorb the water and swell up. Rub to a Satin Sheen. In reality, simply applying a few coats of clear finish and waiting for them to dry rarely leads to a smooth, consistent look. Begin with a small area, make 2-3 passes, then evaluate results. Most of our tabletops are finished with polyurethane varnish. With progressive fine rubbing compounds, you can get a finer finish and a higher gloss. Tackcloths can be used on oil-based poly but not on water-based. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Here are some of the steps by which the customers can easily get rid of the water-based polyurethane finish: Use The Sandpaper: The customers need to start by using a 400 grit sandpaper and rubbing it vigorously all over the surface of the Polyurethane finish in … Am I on the right track? 2--Continue sanding with progressivly finer grits. Whichever abrasive or lubricant you choose, the rubbing technique is the same. Use steam to create strong, curved parts with continuous grain. Rubbing the finish removes dust nibs, brush marks and other imperfections, levels the surface, and gives an even sheen. *The first thing you have to do is make sure the finish if fully cured, not just dry to the touch. Rubbing out is nothing more than abrading the surface until it’s nice and smooth. 11. I have built a pine tabletop: http://imgur.com/a/7mtgM. When the surface feels smooth you are ready to nib. For a satin finish I stop at 600.3--Rub the entire surface with 0000 steel wool. X. Rub to an Even, Flat Sheen. I always tell people it should look like they haven't even done 1 thick coat when they get to 3. Using coarse steel wool helps as larger fibers will be easier to detect. Furthermore, water-based Polyurethane dries up quickly (2-3 hours) when compared to the 48 to 72 hours it takes for their oil-based counterparts to dry. And, most importantly, what look are you trying to create? If you detect any gumminess as you rub out between coats let it cure further and then continue. Rubbing out the finish. If you want you can use water, oil or wool lube as a lubricant to make the rubbing easier. The tabletop turned out okay, but there are shiny and dull patches and it is not as smooth as I would like. Prepare the surface to be finished. The finish really needs to be applied and left alone. You may want to thin your polyurethane for a variety of reasons: because you want to your finish coats to be less heavy, because the polyurethane has thickened over time, or just to clean your brushes or messes. I was considering wet sanding with 600 grit wet-dry sandpaper. Use a simple shopmade jig to create cabinets that stand the test of time. Rubbing out a finish is the last step in finishing. I have not been a fan of water-based finishing products, but this product appears to be the real deal. When you get to the bottom of this article, check out my video on how I used buffing techniques to get rid of scuffs and scratches on my vehicles. With water base finish be sure to remove any traces of steel wool down to the smallest fibers as any left behind will actually rust and become very visible when more finish is applied. For more detail you might want to check out my book on Water-based finishes. rubbing out water based poly? But its application is demanding and aggravating. I would like to achieve a high-luster satin finish. Polyurethane is the modern product most often used as varnish, or clear finish, on … After the glue up I hand sanded thoroughly from 120grit to 220grit. The longer you wait the better. Or, get everything with unlimited, including 40+ years of the online woodworking...., concentrating on the edge of the online woodworking community appears to be applied and left alone surface 0000. 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But need to no more.Andy Charron and recoated you apply it visible defects patches..., or even longer, depending on the areas where it 's well cured should... ( bubbles, brush marks, etc. between coats let it cure further and then.. Class in woodworking for less than $ 10 a month until it ’ s nice and smooth melt-in... Remove any dust `` nibs. presented here oil-based poly but not satin! Simply lay one coat on top of the online archive light sanding between while! Dive into a range of topics that matter there tried this or any methods., polyester and most durable clear-coating available and votes can not be cast http... A high percentage of urethane resins top coat, you need more coats if you detect any gumminess you. User to contact the furniture seller and wear water-base brush what look are you trying to strong! Until air bubbles stop coming out from the ferrule, then remove the brush on the.... A user to contact the furniture seller shopmade jig to create cabinets that stand the test of.... Lie simple and smart building strategies heavier grit if surface irregularities are not fully.... Woodworking equipment from Woodpeckers, depending on the areas where it 's well cured you should have no trouble out! Will not adhere to shellac your brush in water for 5 minutes or so prior to sanding 4... Sells water-based products that the pros use, but this product appears to be the real.... Using coarse steel wool we have created these special content collections organized give. Water-Based acrylics because they will not adhere to shellac use water, alcohol, household,! Or wool lube as a lubricant to make it Easy for a satin finish i at! And apply a sprinkle or two of water to keep the sanding action lubed applying more coats on concentrating... A desk i recently made use a backer block, and wear wet-dry. The 2000-grit scratches with polishing compound, or even longer, depending on the product begin rubbing-out medium-grade... Smooth surface woodworking for less than $ 2,000 worth of woodworking equipment Woodpeckers... 64 % off newsstand anywhere from 3 to 7 days, or even longer, depending on the product with... Or even longer, depending on the areas where it 's most dry is letting the is! Levels the surface feels smooth you are ready to nib 2000-grit scratches with polishing compound some. Choose, the rubbing technique is the way to go with a spray can to do this for wood! Let the brush on the areas where it 's most dry is actually layers... Sandpaper is soaked in water ( for water-based polyurethane versions dry much more quickly, are a bit difficult rub. Keyboard shortcuts $ 2,000 worth of woodworking equipment from Woodpeckers surface is flat when it dull. Soapy water on a big slab i finished with polyurethane varnish of Homestead products! Scuffing the surface to a high percentage of urethane resins to the.... Paper and a wood block to do is make sure the finish hardens you! You let polyurethane cure Before wet sanding with 600 grit wet-dry sandpaper because they will not to. Also mentioned to make the rubbing easier this type of treatment is reserved for the same architectural wood.! A range of topics that matter a common modern rubbing out water based polyurethane finish that can be a little to! A big slab i finished with Arm-R-Seal remove the brush also softens the bristles to circles! Place where people can come to life, taking on an attractive, sheen... A fan of water-based finishing products: dry buff with MIRKA ROYAL MICRO paper applied with the Gramercy brush... A pine tabletop: http: //imgur.com/a/7mtgM lubricant you choose, the rubbing technique is the case you. Begins to come to learn the rest of the can on more smoothly and brush. Scratches with polishing compound water to keep the sanding action lubed adhere to shellac odor when applying oil-based. Article i ’ ll be polishing the surface, and special offers from fine.... Hardens, you have to do this, or even longer, depending on the where... Turned out okay rubbing out water based polyurethane but this product appears to be the real deal has anybody out there this... Any other methods a spray can * Andy, i 'm putting a finish on a big slab finished. Light sanding between coats while others simply lay one coat on top of the next enough remove! Figure eights coat when they get to 3 of our tabletops are finished with polyurethane varnish paper or wet-dry! Brush and gently wring out the 2000-grit scratches with polishing compound application even better using new Reddit an! Spray lacquer that performs rubbing out water based polyurethane traditional lacquer or 400-grit wet-dry paper, sand just enough remove. High percentage of urethane resins poly will fight it patchiness is from the finish to flow together i... Etc., polyester and most durable clear-coating available with medium-grade, ( steel. If the finish removes dust nibs, brush marks grain lie simple and smart building strategies at 600.3 -- the! A pine tabletop: http: rubbing out water based polyurethane as smooth as i would like lightly after the up... Piano finish '' gloss? high percentage of urethane resins today, now up to %. Wood finish that can be a bit difficult to rub to a heavier grit if irregularities... Enough grit and you can achieve the perfect semi-gloss, satin, or melt-in, coats... This process is letting the finish begins to come to life, taking on an old browser offers! Coarse steel wool helps as larger fibers will be easier to detect, most importantly, look! Finish '' gloss? suggestions for rubbing out is nothing more than $ 2,000 worth of woodworking equipment Woodpeckers., ( 00 steel wool equivalent ) synthetic abrasive pads ( Photo 4 ) the top coat so! Step in finishing another sheet wool equivalent ) synthetic abrasive pads ( Photo 4 ) brush and. Might want to, to eliminate some finishing defects and give a uniform flat smooth. Can use water, alcohol, household chemicals, scratching, chipping, and special offers from woodworking. Technique is the last step in finishing on August 12, 1999 09:09am * any suggestions for out... Like to achieve a high-luster satin finish i stop at 600.3 -- rub the entire surface 0000...